31 Comments
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VELLES STUDIOS's avatar

Excellent text. As a Jewish woman who is anti-Zionist, I am proud to see such a thoughtful and nuanced reflection on a topic of great sensitivity. It is clearly not antisemitic. Unfortunately, some will resort to weak and disingenuous rhetoric to justify violence.

p.s.: sometimes it's really hard to find anti-zionist texts, articles or books that aren't tainted by antisemitic/nazi retoric in someway. Any recommendations on this matter? I'm still a beginner.

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Esther Lee's avatar

Clear and reasonable and uncontroversial and logical points. I should be used to it by now but it weirds me out that there are always loud people who smear logical ideas with their hatred and self-righteousness. Their "I'm good and you're evil!" schtick is just like the ultra-religious "You're going to hell!" types. Extra hilarious because so many of them think they're athiests. Thank you for your work.

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Jennifer Kenniston's avatar

🌟 🌟 🌟 🌟 🌟

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Paula's avatar

Yep, as a pro- Zionist Jew, you are correct. Jews have given the world Marx, Trotsky, and Zelensky on the one hand, and Jesus, Moses, Abraham, Einstein, Niels Bohr, and the 10 Commandments on the other. Jews are all over the map, and we’re not monolithic. In the end it’s the ideology that counts, not who is espousing it.

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mhj's avatar

So, someone isn't racist against Blacks unless they want to genocide them all? One isn't prejudiced against gays unless they want to kill every last one of them? Hitler an Himmler are not the ultimate in racism, just the lowest entry point? There is no middle ground at all?

Yes, some people throw the word "antisemitic" around pretty loosely. Just like people do with racist, fascist, communist, Nazi, Marxist, globalist, neoliberal, neoconservative, homophobic, transphobic, Islamophobic, far right, rightwing, far left, leftwing, and many other slurs involving invidious prejudice. But when it comes to Jews, it isn't prejudice unless it is Treblinka and Auschwitz?

You are on dangerous ground here, Ms. Borysenko. I suspect you have not thought this through very well, and until you do you might consider not embarrassing yourself.

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Karlyn Borysenko's avatar

Between the two of us, I'm not the one who hasn't thought this through. And I will not allow veiled threats in my comments. Do not do it again.

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mhj's avatar

How did I threaten you?

Was I wrong in what I wrote?

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Karlyn Borysenko's avatar

If you're smart enough to be here, you're smart enough to know the answer to that question.

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VELLES STUDIOS's avatar

You are openly and flagrantly distorting her argument and subtly threatening her by suggesting she is on “dangerous ground.” At no point was it implied that there are no “less severe” forms of prejudice—quite the contrary, the text explicitly acknowledges their existence.

It is you who is treading on dangerous ground by maliciously making accusations while pretending to be unaware. Very cunning on your part. Anyone who reads your comment will certainly take note of the deceit.

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mhj's avatar
Apr 15Edited

I apologize that I was apparently vague, I meant "dangerous" in the sense of morally dangerous or fraught, it never crossed my mind that it could mean something physical. But I see that people did take it that way and am sorry to have created that impression.

But as for the rest, Ms Borysenko was very clear that anything less than expressed genocidal intent did not rise to the level where she would accept the person as "antisemitic." A standard of specificity that is not applies when she says she is concerned about "communists."

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Karlyn Borysenko's avatar

Ahhhhhh and now we’re being intellectually dishonest. Ask me how I can spot a tribalist.

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mhj's avatar

How can you spot a tribalist? A definition of "tribalist" might also be helpful.

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Karlyn Borysenko's avatar

You can read the article you’re commenting on to find it.

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Will Martin's avatar

So, Are You Jewish? You Sound Jewish.

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Squinten Quinten's avatar

I mean I disagree with you but the way they are arguing is just dishonest and petty and just overall ridiculous. You in no way threatened anybody.

I would think that the line you take issue with is just hyperbole.

I would say yeah antisemitism is antisemitism but I am not too concerned with just a random racist individuals.

I am pretty concerned however with the censorship in the name of antisemitism. And that the censorship uses the loose definition to justify its action. I would argue, incorrectly calling someone a globalist would be just as bad as incorrectly calling someone an antisemite if there was the censorship campaign against globalism like there is against antisemitism.

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Vincenzo R's avatar

Whether it's about the jews or hitler and the ''6 million jews'' , everyone has been lied to about it, with disinformation, fake history, lies lies lies. Books, documentary, videos, schools are all indented to manipulate, control, and direct all attention and all efforts away from truth.

Watch europathelastbatlle.net. What really happened withj the jews and the real hitler was all archived . Many officials admit that hitler was right. ''We fought the wrong enemy'' General Geeorge Patton.

"I believe now that Hitler and the German people did not want war. But we declared war on Germany intent on destroying it, in accordance with our principle of balance of power, and we were encouraged by the JEWS around Roosevelt.

We ignored Hitler's pleadings not to enter into war. Now we are forced to realize that Hitler was right."

Sir Hartley Shaw cross, British Attorney> General, Senior Nuremberg Prosecutor - March, / 6th. 1984.

"As I toured Germany, I began to see Adolph Hitler not as a monster, but rather as a great man."

John F. Kennedy post-war diary, pp, 44

"Hitler was right about almost everything." .-Stanley Kubrick, film director (while scripting "Eyes Wide Shut", wanting all traces of Jewishness removed, June 16,1999).

Even a jewish rabbai, don't rember his name now, he admits that hitler was right.

Anyways, hitler was tryign to save europe and not just germany..

Watch : europathelastbattle.net

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Karlyn Borysenko's avatar

No. We are not doing this here. None of this is what I have asked for and yes, I watched Europa (which is also easy to debunk).

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Will Martin's avatar

Yes, It’s The Jews. /pol/ is always right. You would only be questioning this if You Were Jewish.

Are You Jewish?

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Karlyn Borysenko's avatar

You will be banned if you ever come on my publication and do this again.

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Westchester Queen's avatar

I agree with mhj above. Dangerous ground means dangerous thinking, a dangerous pool of ideas. There was no threat.

Antisemitism or Jew hatred happens when one applies to Jews — or manifestations of Jewish identity like Israel in the modern world—a disproportional or unique level of attention, or criteria/thinking one does not apply to any other group. The emphasis on AIPAC is one of them. The money spent by AIPAC, an American group and not foreign like many ignorant people say, is peanuts compared with that of Qatar. Yet the obsession with AIPAC continues.

Many jews supported socialism and communism in the first decades because it was their only shot or hope for equality, in theory. Not hard to understand when you realize many did not have citizenship, rights, and suffered pogroms for centuries.

This piece is dangerous because it purports to be nuanced and balanced… and under this veil the author implies how “nuance” about the scale of the Holocaust fits within her ‘rational’ analysis… her analysis is not rational or nuanced, it’s just shallow. At best.

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Karlyn Borysenko's avatar

If a group is funded by a foreign power is very literally influencing the majority of elected leaders in our government, that is a problem worthy of discussion.

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Westchester Queen's avatar

It’s entirely funded by Americans. American individuals who think our relationship with israel is important. Not funded by a foreign power…

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Will Martin's avatar

Those supposed Americans have Dual Citizenship With Israel. They’re Jews. They’re a foreign power.

You Sound Jewish.

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Karlyn Borysenko's avatar

As for your remark about the Holocaust, if you think that’s not nuanced, I’ll bet all the money in my bank account you’re a zionist defending your tribe’s narrative.

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Westchester Queen's avatar
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Karlyn Borysenko's avatar

And you just got banned from commenting for 30 days. We do not do internet outrage here.

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Will Martin's avatar

Lol, Jews Are Scum. Are You Jewish?

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Westchester Queen's avatar

And this “I am just asking uncomfortable questions” bogus is getting tired… it’s just a way of saying or implying things while putting the burden of the explained action on the party…

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Karlyn Borysenko's avatar

There is nothing wrong with asking uncomfortable questions. And EVERYONE has a burden of proof for their points.

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